Curtis Duffy: How Family Tragedy Forged a ‘Fireproof’ Chef

TRANSCRIPT

Kirk Bachmann: Hello everyone, my name is Kirk Bachmann, and welcome back to The Ultimate Dish. Today, we are thrilled to welcome back Curtis Duffy — world-renowned, James Beard Award-winning, Michelin-starred chef, and now published author.

Chef Curtis’s journey from the chaos of rural Ohio to the pinnacle of fine dining reads like something out of a novel — which is exactly why he’s written one.
His new memoir, “Fireproof,” chronicles an extraordinary rise through some of the world’s most prestigious kitchens, all while navigating unimaginable personal tragedy.

Raised in Ohio by an outlaw biker father, Curtis first found refuge in a high school home economics class before moving to Chicago to work for legendary chef Charlie Trotter.

He became Chef de Cuisine at Alinea, earned two Michelin stars as head chef at Avenues, and later opened Grace restaurant, which earned three Michelin stars four years in a row — a feat that solidified his place among the world’s greatest culinary artists.

After walking away from Grace in a heartbreaking act of defiance, Curtis created Ever restaurant, which earned two Michelin stars from 2021-2024, even after a launch nearly derailed by the COVID-19 pandemic.

In 2024, he was ranked one of the “50 Most Powerful People in American Fine Dining” by the Robb Report.

Chef Curtis has also been featured in Netflix’s documentary “For Grace” and FX’s hit series “The Bear.” He sits on the Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts advisory board, where a scholarship in his name has been awarded.

Get ready for a raw, honest conversation about resilience, ambition, and what it truly means to be fireproof in both the kitchen and in life.

And there he is. How are you, chef?

Curtis Duffy: I’m great. How are you?

Kirk Bachmann: What an intro, there?

Curtis Duffy: I don’t even know how to live up to that. That’s pretty incredible. Thank you.

Kirk Bachmann: It is! That’s your story. First of all, congratulations on all the success. It’s so good to see you. What people don’t know is that on the occasion that I have to be in Chicago; and I pop into the restaurant; and I go over to the bar after; and maybe it’s 11:30 or 11:45 – sorry, Mom, I’m out late – guess who’s there? Guess who’s there to greet me? Chef Curtis Duffy. He’s there.

This is your third time on the show, on The Ultimate Dish. We can’t keep you away – or we can’t stay away.

Curtis Duffy: It’s an honor to be back, so thank you very much for having me again.

The Right Time and the Right Author for “Fireproof”

Kirk Bachmann: Absolutely. We’ll dive into the memoir. I’ve got stacks all around my office. So, so, so excited. So excited for you. I just got it. I’m flying to Chicago tonight, so I’m going to try to get through most of it. We’re going to welcome you to Boulder in a couple of weeks.

Curtis Duffy: Beautiful.

Kirk Bachmann: Before we dive in, how’s it going? How’s the summer, the travel, the restaurant business, city of Chicago? How’s everything going?

Curtis Duffy: The city has finally warmed up. We are pushing 80s and 90s, which is great. That’s my type of weather. The restaurant scene is booming, busy, busy, busy. Cocktail lounge is doing great after. The neighborhood’s growing. [We’ve] got some construction across the street, which is fantastic. It’s going to be great for the neighborhood.

Kirk Bachmann: That’s so great.

Curtis Duffy: I’m looking forward to the development.

Kirk Bachmann: That’s so great.

Well, to dive right in, I’ve read so many headlines, but this one in particular from Peter Blauner the New York Times best-selling author says, “Chef Curtis Duffy’s ‘Fireproof’ is like Anthony Bourdain’s ‘Kitchen Confidential’ meets ‘Sons of Anarchy.’” First of all, wow, what a comparison. What a compliment! I don’t know, in many ways, it sounds perfect. How do you feel about that comparison?

Curtis Duffy: I think he nailed it. It might be right. I couldn’t have said it any better. I think it fits amazingly, absolutely.

Kirk Bachmann: What’s the elevator speech? Tell us about “Fireproof.” I’m going to peel it apart here, but in your words, tell us about “Fireproof.”

Curtis Duffy: “Fireproof” for me is really…I guess I should rewind. When we released “For Grace,” it kind of just scratched the surface of everything. Also, it scratched the surface of not enough information out there. I wanted to write a memoir that invoked a lot of childhood stories, good and bad, and tell my story from my story. As “For Grace” did, it was also told not so much from me. I wanted to have that voice. I wanted something that my daughters could read. I wanted something to help create and help solidify a little bit of legacy for myself. Something [I could be] really proud of.

Also, the cathartic side of it as well was a big important factor for me.

Kirk Bachmann: Yeah. You sort of described – these are my words – in the book, as a complete dive into your entire life, to your point, from birth to where you are today and the ins and the outs. You mentioned, I’ve read, that “For Grace,” in many ways, barely skimmed the surface. Just getting started. This is more of a no-holds-barred moment. I think I read, “no sugar coating,” which is great. It’s raw.

I love the idea of writing a memoir – or anything – for your family, for your kids, for your daughters. Is there a specific reason why now was the perfect time to write it?

Curtis Duffy: I don’t think there ever was going to be a perfect time. Jeremy asked me that same question. Jeremy asked me when I went to him to ask him if he’d be interested in writing a memoir for me. His first comment was, “Why now? You’re so young. Don’t you want to do it when you’re older, like Keith Richards or maybe something a little bit older than forty-five?” I said, “No. It’s the right time.” Actually, I don’t know if it was the right time.

It was the right time in the sense that he’s a great friend of mine. I have an enduring relationship with him, and I trusted his voice. I loved his other books that he’s written. I knew that, for me to be able to tell these stories that I wanted to get off my chest or to essentially let go, I needed somebody that I could fully trust and that would tell my story [with] pure honesty, brutal. We didn’t sugar coat anything, and that was incredibly important to me. I don’t know that I could have given what I gave to that book if it was a complete stranger. Honestly, I give all my thanks to Jeremy because the full trust in his ability and friendship to let me do this.

[Afterwards] he said, “Yes, I’d be delighted to write the book.”

Kirk Bachmann: Yeah. What a great answer! He’s got to be super proud. Trust, gosh, it’s just so important in everything we do.

Curtis Duffy: Absolutely.

Kirk Bachmann: I love that you found – and this goes back a ways – your first refuge, if you will, in a home ec class. You said, quite literally, that it fed you because you didn’t have the money for school lunches back then. Chef, for the many culinary students that will listen to our chat, that is such a powerful reminder that passion can spark anywhere, any time, any place.

Curtis Duffy: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Letting Go Through Resilience

Kirk Bachmann: Even in the most desperate of circumstances, I could say.

What was it like, if you don’t mind sharing, to share the darker details of your life with your family – about your family – with the rest of the world? Even though Jeremy’s helping, was it difficult to relive some of those memories, even through Jeremy.

Curtis Duffy: Yeah. All of it is digging into your past. How much have you forgotten? How much have you buried? How much are you willing to let go? Even through the thirty years since the tragedy has happened and the thirty years of dealing with just that one incident. There’s a whole lifetime before that where there were a lot of dark and ugly things that I needed to bring to the surface and to light, if you will, because that was my way of dealing with a lot of those things. It was so easy just to push them aside, not deal with them, sweep them under the rug if you will. But in some way, somehow, they always come back to haunt you in the most unexpected time and place and the most inconvenient time and place, first and foremost, when those moments do come about.

It was about really letting go. It was a way for me to let go, to get my words, my thoughts on paper, to then be able to put it back on the shelf. It’s a resting place, if you will. More than anything, it’s a resting place. It’s a resting place for my daughters to pick up one day, my kids to pick up one day, and maybe their future kids to pick up one day and try to understand a little bit more about my life.

Kirk Bachmann: A legacy in many ways. You’ve said, and I quote, “’Fireproof’ is about resilience. It’s about surviving things that most people wouldn’t come back from and still choosing to grow, to live and to love.” Beautiful. So the title itself, where does that come from? Was that a collaboration, or did it just make sense right away?

Curtis Duffy: It made sense. [For] Jeremy and I, it made sense. I had to think about it. To be honest, I had to think about that title for a while. I was more concerned about people reading the title thinking they had to do something with being a fireman or being a firefighter. It didn’t really dawn on me until we gave it more thought and more explanation behind it that, yeah, it makes total sense. My life, it is about being fireproof. It is the resilience of going through the things that I went through and how you bounce back from it. How do you keep going? How do you get that drive and that fire within you to stand back up and keep pushing forward?

It’s so easy just to go the other way. That’s the easy way. A lot of people say you’ve got two paths in life; you can go this way or this way. It’s so easy to go down the wrong path. It’s so much harder to go down the right path and to do the right things. That’s what I chose.

Devastation into Determination

Kirk Bachmann: Particularly in your situation, because there are a lot of eyes on you through your career, waiting to see which path you take.

It would be really interesting. I entitle this “breaking the family curse.” If we can, let’s dive into what I view as the heart of your story, this idea of being motivated, set on leaving Ohio and breaking the Duffy family curse, if you will. You’ve been incredibly candid about the trauma that shaped you. Because the book is new, many haven’t read it yet. For those who haven’t read it – I’ll be done by tomorrow morning – can you tell us a little bit about your parents and what happened? Maybe how the loss of your parents impacted you? And maybe even changed your worldview? It’s a big question; I apologize.

Curtis Duffy: Let’s just start with the parent side of it. When I was eighteen, I was fresh out of high school starting my journey into college. I was maybe two months into college, a couple months into having my own apartment. My father and mother were separated. My mother was trying to push for a divorce; my father certainly didn’t want it. He was still in love with my mother.

It was on my wedding day where my father tried to make one last attempt to reconcile everything, try to bring the family back together. It was very important for him to have that family structure. It just wasn’t happening. My mother had moved on long before and was just ready to be done with the whole situation.

So my father took my mother at gunpoint, hostage, in the middle of the afternoon, grabbed her by her hair, put her into this car that he had [made] makeshift in a way that you couldn’t get. Once you’re in, you can’t get out. The door handles didn’t work. At the time, the handles to roll down the windows didn’t work. The locks were removed. The only way to get out was the driver’s side door. He drove her to the house where we were living at the time, where they were living at the time. Of course, they had separated. It was where my father was living. Inside that house, he had completely barricaded all the windows, the doors, everything shut.

This was pre-planned, of course. He put himself in a position in the house where he couldn’t be seen by any outside person – police officer, SWAT team, whatever you want to call them, sniper. It turned into a ten-hour standoff, which ended in a murder-suicide about ten o’clock, eleven o’clock at night.

Kirk Bachmann: Thank you, Curtis. I know it’s difficult. Your transparency and genuine sharing is so appreciated.

I’ve known you for a long time now. What strikes me is how you’ve channeled that devastation into determination. You’ve talked about your parents work ethic, saying “ironically my parents didn’t have an easy life, but they worked hard, multiple jobs, nonstop.” That work ethic, that determination got passed onto you. You knew you wanted more. You saw what you didn’t want, and that was enough to push you forward. You said, “Summoning extraordinary fortitude” and that you “ate pain” to graduate culinary school and make it to Charlie Trotter’s, which, at the time by the way, was like the Harvard of fine dining, if you will.

Curtis Duffy: Yes. Yes it was.

Kirk Bachmann: God, there’s just so much that we want to ask. If we think about the previous restaurants and the different places that you’ve worked, Chef, that have had a big impact on your career, is there a way to tie it back to the story that you just shared with us? How that determination was just in you.

Curtis Duffy: The beauty of this whole thing is that through the upbringing of my childhood – the beauty in that – was that I was able to observe as a young child the work ethic of my parents, the daily discipline and grind that they had every day to wake up three kids to feed, go to work multiple jobs, and still provide a little bit for the family. And do that every single day.

They weren’t people who had careers. [My dad] was kind of everywhere. He loved tattooing. He loved mechanics. He loved building cars. He loved fast motorcycles. He worked for my grandfather as a manager of his retread tire shop. My mother was a clerk at 7-Eleven, a butcher for Kroger’s. Never really had a career, nothing like I have or like a lot of people today have.

To see them get up and go from job to job, they were always gone. They were always gone [when I was] a young child, I guess that instilled a lot of great things in me without me even knowing. The beauty of it is watching that unfold. For me, it was about applying that to my personal life. I guess you do what you’re taught. That’s where I learned as a young to work hard, to grind it out. It wasn’t days off. It wasn’t calling off sick. It was just that intense moment of work. I was just lucky enough that I found cooking, and I found that I loved it so much that I could turn it into something that I want to do for the rest of my life.

Kirk Bachmann: Such good advice. Such good advice for students.

Are there some other individuals, chefs maybe, other friends that you’ve worked with over the years that also had a really great impact on your life.

Curtis Duffy: Yeah, so many people that I come in contact with: John Souza, Regan Coy Visto, another gentleman named Ken Wilcox. These are all three gentlemen that I worked with in my earlier career in Columbus that had a huge impact on who I am today. Then, moving to Chicago, of course Charlie Trotter and Grant Achatz instilled a lot of great things in how I manage today, how I lead the kitchen, how I run the restaurants.

If we fast forward to the time at Grace when we had to close, I don’t think of it so much as a huge loss to me. It was a tremendous learning curve for me. I think everything happens for a reason in life. I think even my parents passing away, there’s a reason for it. There’s a reason why it happened. It wasn’t until a few weeks ago when Kim Severson from the “New York Times,” we were having a conversation on the side of the street as she was interviewing me. I quite wonder why things happen the way it did. I always ask myself, “Would I be where I am today if they were still alive?” I think her answer was the most perfect answer I’ve ever heard, which was, “It was their last gift to you.”

Kirk Bachmann: Oh.

Curtis Duffy: For me, we stood there not really knowing each other that well. A small tear, we started crying a little bit about what she said. She gave me that answer. She gave me something that I was looking for for so long, which was so important to me.

The Ability to be Malleable

Kirk Bachmann: That’s absolutely beautiful. I’m so happy that you shared that.

I was just going to mention really quick, I watched an episode a few weeks ago when you were down on the farm with Farmer Lee. There’s just something about the two of you walking through a field. I’ve seen you together in person as well. It’s beautiful to see that comfort. I know he admires you, and I know that you have a beautiful friendship that you appreciate as well. I just wanted to make sure I mentioned that. Such appreciation.

For our students and even staff who might be dealing with their own challenges – could be financial, could be family, could be personal – your story shows that sometimes, again, the greatest obstacles can be our greatest fuel or gift – I’m going to use that word instead – but the intensity of our industry, as we both know, can be overwhelming at times. How do you balance the day-to-day stressors of your personal life, your past, and the actual business? Like I said at the beginning when we first saw each other today, you’re there a lot. You are working a lot. That hasn’t changed.

Curtis Duffy: I’ve got to be honest with you. What I’ve said in the past is something I’ve always [striven] for is to find that balance. If you search back to any article, that question comes up a lot in our industry. How do you balance personal, professional, kids, dogs, and things you want to do? And I’ve always said, “That is the ultimate goal, to find that balance.” As I get older and as I think about it even more, that word “balance” to me, what does it really mean? What are we trying to say when we say we want balance?

For me, balance is something that is stable, stability. Without movement, is kind of what I take from that word, balance. I’ve kind of accepted the fact that I don’t need balance in my life. What I need is the ability to be malleable. I need to be able to do the things that I want to do when they are important to me and do them, and focus on that.

For instance, my wife and I live between Miami and Chicago. What is so important to me is when we’re together, we’re together. It’s quality over quantity. I know that I need to be able to put my energy where it’s needed when it’s needed, and I need to be able to not focus so much over here when I need to focus over here.

So that’s my balance, being able to be nimble enough to move around and be able to juggle these things all at once.

Kirk Bachmann: I just absolutely love the honesty of that answer! That is a very truthful answer. I wrote most of it down because that’s going to be my answer to Gretchen going forward. The other answer is just a [cliché]. It’s not truthful.

Curtis Duffy: It’s not. It’s not truthful.

Kirk Bachmann: I love that answer. To focus on what’s important. That is so key.

Curtis Duffy: If it’s the kids at the time, then it’s the kids. If it is work. If it’s my wife, it’s my wife. We just have to be that way. That’s the way it is in 2025.

Failure is a Lesson

Kirk Bachmann: Right now, in this moment, you’re the most important thing to me, so I’m going to focus only on you. Only on you.

I want to talk a little bit about your rise, walking away, Michelin stars, all of that. There’s a time whenTrotter’s kitchen was just – I mean, you and Grant and Graham Elliot, and Amaro, a very good friend of mine. You staged at the French Laundry. You worked your way up at Alinea, Avenues, where you earned your first two Michelin stars, and then came Grace – three Michelin stars four years in a row. I had the good fortune of seeing you there a few times. That’s culinary immortality, but then you did something that shocked the industry and a lot of people. You walked away after some disputes. I think you called that “a heartbreaking act of defiance.”

I’m just curious, again, for students and for those listening, what have you taken away? I know you’ve learned a lot, but what have you taken away from Grace going away, pursuing new restaurant ventures, Ever and After, and Reve, the burger restaurant during the pandemic and such? I’m just curious. From a learning perspective, what can we share with students today?

Curtis Duffy: I think the ability to fail is a huge lesson. The ability to accept failure is also another lesson because nobody likes to fail, but it’s so, so important that we all fail at the things that we do. The things that we achieve, we try to do. Without failure, you’re not taking the risk. You’re not trying to push the boundaries. You’re not trying to push the excellence or the commitment to oneself.

For me, walking away from Grace was the hardest decision that I had probably ever made, but it was also the best decision I’ve ever made. I’m in such a better place because of it. I look back, and I look at all of the things that we achieved and the things that we set out to achieve. We achieved a tremendous amount. That’s not easy for me to say because I don’t like talking about myself; I want to let somebody else say that. But we did achieve a lot of great things there, and I’m incredibly proud of what we did there.

It would have been so much easier for me to just, after walking away, go and do something less demanding. Less of a restaurant that wasn’t committed to me being there every single day and still be successful. Ever is another restaurant, as Grace was, where I’m expected to be here. Guests are expected to see me. I’m expected to create. I’m expected to keep this restaurant moving forward. That’s a lot to put on somebody’s shoulders. Fine. I’m excited to do that, but it could have been easier for me to just walk away and do something else less ambitious. A pizza restaurant, something more casual, high-end, high volume, if you will. Take a check in the back. I don’t need to be here; my name’s not on the door. But that’s the other path in life where that’s the easy side. That’s the easy way of doing it. For me, I wasn’t finished telling my story. I had a lot more to give to the food and wine world, a lot more to prove to myself, a lot more to make my family proud. At the end of the day, I want to be great at something. This was my one and only shot, which is here. Which is the restaurant world. I have to give it my all. I wasn’t done giving it my all.

Kirk Bachmann: Such a great answer. Such a great answer. I love the word “pride.”

You rebuild with Ever. Covid hits as you’re launching, but you still earned a couple of Michelin stars for three years in a row. I have to remind you of this: We’re at Grace one night. I can’t remember if Michel Escoffier was with us. I know Jack was. It was after service, it was beautiful. It was great. You and I were just standing in the hallway outside of the kitchen talking.

Me and my big mouth, I’m like, “Hey, Chef, do you sometimes let some of your commis in the kitchen create the dish that you’re going to serve?”

You just look at me, and you’re like, “No.”

Curtis Duffy: No.

Creating a Dish

Kirk Bachmann: But I love that. I know that you’ve mentioned during service that you’ll challenge your staff to plate dishes more quickly, with more finesse than you. They never win. The challenge is to beat you. I love that.

How would you describe your approach? Then I’m going to ask you how you want others to approach it, but what is your approach to creating a new dish, your dish?

Curtis Duffy: Yeah. It starts immediately with the ingredients, whatever’s in season.

Kirk Bachmann: Farmer would love that.

Curtis Duffy: You pick an ingredient, and then I’ll walk through. If you want to pick something. You want to pick a vegetable or something?

Kirk Bachmann: Yeah. Eggplant.

Curtis Duffy: Eggplant. So, if we’re saying, “Let’s get eggplant. This is what we want.” We would reach out to Farmer or any of our local farmers here and see what they’re growing, see what’s in season, how many different varieties we can get. It starts there.

Then, what do we want to do with the eggplant? Maybe we had an eggplant dish on last year. We certainly don’t want to repeat it, so what are we going to do with it this year? If that’s not the case, and maybe it’s something we haven’t used in a very long time, we don’t have to worry about what we did last year because I couldn’t remember what we did five years ago.

Then it’s like, all right. If that’s the main focus, what are three other flavor profiles that we’re trying to attach it to, that we think go well with eggplant. One might say, fish sauce, black garlic, and strawberries. Let’s just say those three flavors. Now let’s start taking those apart. We take apart the eggplant. How are we going to cook it? How many different variations of this eggplant can we achieve? How many different parts of the plant can we use other than just the fruit itself? Can we use the leaves? Can we use the stems? Can we use the root? Has anybody done this before? We do some research there. Then we do the same approach with the garlic and strawberries and fish sauce. We create. We jot down. We conceptualize on paper.

Then we put all of those into motion. We get into the kitchen. We cook it. It never turns out the way it looks on paper or tastes. Then, from that point, that’s probably the most critical part. Where does it stand after we tapped into what we think it should taste like? Then we go from there. We start tweaking. We either take away or we add to each element. What’s important with the conceptualization part is there’s not any more flavor developed after those three flavors. We’re not introducing another. If we say we need to add something to it, we’re not adding another. We’re not reaching for ginger. We’re not doing that. We’re trying to stay focused on those three elements, but how can we extract what we need from those three elements?

Kirk Bachmann: That’s the key right there. When you’re saying that, Chef, I’m thinking to myself, in a weird sort of way, almost serendipitous way, you’re keeping it simple.

Curtis Duffy: Yeah, you have to. As a chef, I think you have a responsibility to give the guest something that is unique and different, but you also have to have them connected to the dish. There has to be a sense of familiarity to it as well. You can’t take them so far down this path that it doesn’t make sense because they have no idea what they’re eating. Then they’re going to be completely lost. But if you can put them in a realm where they are familiar with the flavor profiles but you’re giving them something different, maybe in terms of texture or just in idea alone – like strawberries and eggplant. That seems so crazy. And it probably does. It seems bizarre.

The Perfect Meal Equals Perfect Company

Kirk Bachmann: I always think of that scene in “Ratatouille” when the critic gets that ratatouille and it takes him all the way back to childhood. That’s a beautiful thing.

I was going to ask you next what’s the perfect meal, but I think a better question is…. I’ll set the tone. I can remember being at Ever with Gretchen and her good friend Shannon. We had such a lovely time, but what was amazing [was] we wanted for nothing. Things were just happening as we thought. You reach for a new glass of wine, and there is a new glass of wine. You’re reaching for something sweet, and something sweet showed up. It was this perfect dining experience, which is really, really, really hard.

I don’t want you to give away all your secrets, but in your mind, if you’re with your wife and you’re in Miami and you want to go have a beautiful evening, what is a perfect dining experience for you and your wife, for you and your family?

Curtis Duffy: I think, for me, it’s very simple. I’m not venturing out as much anymore to explore. I’m not in the search for the perfect meal. I think I’m more in search of the perfect company and the perfect time. I think that refers back to my balance moment. I want to have that evening with my family, but I want the interaction to be perfect and not so much the atmosphere, if that makes sense. I long for those moments when all four kids are together and my wife and I are together. Those are far in between each other, and I miss having those moments.

For me, I think it is about having those moments. It’s not even about having the perfect meal anymore. I would love [it.] It could be over a beautiful pizza. It could be over something that the kids pick out. They’re really into Thai food right now, which is pretty awesome.

Kirk Bachmann: That’s great. That’s great.

Curtis Duffy: Could it be a great meal like that? For me, it’s just about the company at this point.

Chicago and “The Bear”

Kirk Bachmann: That’s the right answer.

What do you love about the Chicago food scene?

Curtis Duffy: Right now, wow. That’s a great question because I’m not out enough in the community to see what is going on. I hear great things; I just don’t get out enough unfortunately.

Kirk Bachmann: But it’s positive. We hear a lot. There’s diversity, there’s great ethnic options, and people are excited about it. You’re a big part of that. It wasn’t always like that in Chicago.

Curtis Duffy: I love that Dylan Trotter is coming back to resurrect his father’s restaurant. I think it’s a beautiful thing. It’s a beautiful tribute to trying to live out Charlie’s vision of what that restaurant [could be.] The space is beautiful. I really hope he nails that. I have huge faith in Dylan to execute that properly.

Kirk Bachmann: He’s a really exciting young person. He was on the show and is just so full of life and love for his father and his memory and all of that.

I have to ask, being from Chicago myself and being involved with a film studio right there in River North and having run a school right down on the other side – we call it Mr. Beef. FX calls it “The Bear.” Some really, really, really great episodes [where] you were featured. Is it just unbelievably surreal to see your world that you built, that you dreamed of, reflected in pop culture in such a positive way?

Curtis Duffy: I know. We’re incredibly lucky to be a part of that series. What a special moment in time that we’re in, watching them execute probably the highest level of what a chef is actually doing from day-to-day. They just nail it so good. Just to be a small glimpse of that: we’re completely honored to be a part of that.

Kirk Bachmann: The fork episode. I don’t want to give anything away. I get chills when I think about it.

Curtis Duffy: So amazing, it really is. They do a great job.

Kirk Bachmann: Can I tell you a really funny story?

Curtis Duffy: You know what I love with that episode – and I won’t give it away either – but I love Richie’s character in that episode because that is so true to so many cooks that I see. I say this a lot and I’ve said this for so many years; it’s not an on/off switch. Being a chef is not, “I show up to work and I turn the switch on and now I’m a chef. And I leave, I’m out the back door, and now I’m not. Now I’m just Curtis.” No. It is a lifestyle. That episode does so well with shaping his character. It is a lifestyle. You see him in the beginning, eating, waking up so early, and then at the very end he’s waking up before the alarm clock. That’s what the industry, a good restaurant will do to you. Sorry, not the industry. A good teacher, a good leader, a good mentor, that’s where that comes from. It’s pretty amazing.

Kirk Bachmann: I have to tell you a funny related story. We were in town for a family member’s graduation from nursing school. We were staying in a hotel in the city. I don’t know where the family was, but I was walking back into the hotel. I look over at the fireplace in the lobby, and Jamie Lee Curtis is sitting over there. I’m like, “Alright, what are you going to do, Bachmann? What are you going to do?”

Of course, I just walk right over. She was so sweet and so beautiful and so funny. Chef, all I could keep talking about was “Freaky Friday.” I keep going, “You were so great in ‘Freaky Friday.’ Oh my God, my wife loves ‘Freaky Friday.’”

She’s like, “You know, I’m here to film the last two seasons of ‘The Bear,’ right?”

“Oh, you’re great in that, but ‘Freaky Friday.’”

Curtis Duffy: Let’s not forget about “Halloween.”

A Hard Business to Love

Kirk Bachmann: And “Halloween.” “True Lies.” All of it. I think I humored her a little bit, but she probably had enough of me.

If I can shift a little bit to our students, you’ve asked young people who’ve come through your doors, “Are you here because you really love it? Are you here because you’re passionate about it? And not because you think you’re going to achieve glory?” That is a really, really powerful statement. No matter how you say it, it has to be said. What sort of advice do you give to the next Curtis Duffy?

Curtis Duffy: You nailed it with that because it is about that. We have these young men and women who come into Ever or After or many restaurants we’ve been a part of that have a different outlook, a different thought of what it’s going to be. They see it from the outside as this beautiful spaceship that has all these bells and whistles and does all these magical things, but at the end of the day, it is a business. It needs to be run as a business. That business is a hard business to run. It’s long hours inside.

That’s why we encourage everybody that we’re hiring is that they come and do a stage with us. We want them to feel what it feels like after a full work week, not just two days. Anybody can really do that. How do you feel after a week’s worth of what we do here? Is it still that glamorous thing that you thought it was going to be?

I encourage the young guys when they think they want to get into the business to do the same. Go work at a restaurant. Go see if you really love it. If you don’t, there’s something out there that you’re going to love. It might not be in the restaurant industry. It’s not built for everyone. You might love my restaurant and be very successful, but go down the street with ambitions of being successful there, too, and fall miserably on your face.

It really is about finding that passion. It’s about finding that connection to the restaurant as well, and that love for what you do. Can you do this? If they didn’t pay you at all, could you do this? Would you do this for the rest of your life if they didn’t pay you? That’s something you’ve got to ask yourself because the pay is not great. We know that. We’re working on that. I think everybody’s working on that. Could you pick up a guitar and play the guitar the rest of your life like you had to?

Kirk Bachmann: That’s a good analogy because we sometimes just get stuck in our industry, but that’s really great advice for parenting. It’s great advice for someone who wants to be a carpenter or a financier or a musician.

Curtis Duffy: Yeah. You’re going to find in anything that you do in life, you’re going to hate parts of it. You’re going to hate parts of it. It’s not fun. It’s not meant to be all joyful, but you’ve still got to do it like you love it, even the bad parts. I don’t like sitting behind a desk and doing the paperwork and some of the things that I have to do as a chef, but guess what? That’s part of the job you’ve got [work] through it. You’ve got to do it like you love it. You’ve got to put the same amount of passion into the paperwork as you do creating a dish.

That’s something we’ve always stood upon. Everything is of equal importance at the restaurant, whether it’s cleaning dishes, serving food, pouring wine, creating a menu. Everything is of equal importance. The moment you let any of those slide, it’s not balanced anymore. It needs to be balanced. It needs to be able to hold itself up.

Kirk Bachmann: Like a dish. I love the concept of equal importance. My son, he’s a sophomore in high school playing baseball. Sometimes, depending on the team we’re playing, the coach – he’ll bat third or he’ll bat sixth. He doesn’t want to bat sixth; he wants to bat third, but they’re all of equal importance.

Curtis Duffy: Absolutely. There’s a reason he’s putting him at sixth.

Proud Parents and Working to Make Change

Kirk Bachmann: Exactly. Exactly. It’s a beautiful conversation. For me, and I know our listeners, there’s something really deeply moving from your journey, Chef, from that really chaotic childhood to where you are today. Living between Chicago and Miami with your beautiful wife, Jennifer, and your children. If your parents could see you now, what would they think? What would they say?

Curtis Duffy: Thank you for that. That’s very touching. I would hope that they’re incredibly proud of what I’ve achieved and what I’ve built. I hope that they would think that I’m an incredible father and husband and that I was raised– I know I was raised in a way to make me who I am today. I have to let that past go because I know it’s not all good. I don’t think I would be who I am today if I wasn’t raised that way. I have an internal fire that burns like nothing else, and it’s because of them. It’s because of the way I was raised, so I would hope that they see that and that they gave that to me. They’re proud of what I did with it as opposed to what I didn’t do with it.

Kirk Bachmann: They would be very proud, Chef. Very, very proud.

Curtis Duffy: I think so.

Kirk Bachmann: I know so.

What do you hope people get out of reading “Fireproof?”

Curtis Duffy: I hope it’s a learning curve for them. I hope it’s able to help them. If they’re going through something currently, if they’re going through something that they’ve been meaning to go through and they need to deal with it, I hope something in that book can give them a glimpse of light and [let] them know that you can make it through. You will make it through, but you have to be willing to put in the work, too. It doesn’t just happen. You have to put the work in.

With this book, I put in a tremendous amount of work, but outside of the book before I even wanted to write it, I put in a tremendous amount of work. If my wife was sitting here, she would say, “Yeah.” From the time she met me to who I am today, I’ve changed a tremendous amount in my life for the better. A lot of it has to do with me recognizing the issues and things that were making [me] who I am. I had to change them. I had to change because I had to deal with them.

Hopefully, this book will be able to allow someone to know that, to see that, and make the change and better their life in any way possible.

Kirk Bachmann: That’s very eloquent and beautiful. I was going to ask for students and others who may be at the beginning of their journey, what would you want them to know about truly being fireproof. I think you just answered that.

Curtis Duffy: I think a lot of it has to be that person who is willing to dig deep inside themselves and be willing to grind, have the grit and fortitude every single day to do something with what they love to do. And have blinders on and just move forward with lightning speed, and have patience at the same time.

Kirk Bachmann: Don’t you love the word “grit?”

Curtis Duffy: I love it. I love it.

Kirk Bachmann: Gosh. I want your next restaurant to be called Grit.

Curtis Duffy: I do, too. I do, too.

Kirk Bachmann: What is next?

Curtis Duffy: That is what it takes. That’s just what it takes.

Kirk Bachmann: I’m sorry that I even say “what’s next?” because you’re on your book tour! Give me a break! But I know that there’s more on the horizon.

Curtis Duffy: There is more. I’ve got a lot of stuff in the works, which I’m excited about. It’ll come out soon. It’ll come out soon.

Kirk Bachmann: I love it. I love it.

Curtis Duffy: I’m very excited about the future of my world and the world that we continue to build around here. Surround myself with incredible, talented people. We’re just moving forward. I’m really excited about the next chapter.

Curtis Duffy’s (Current) Ultimate Dish

Kirk Bachmann: I’m so excited. I talked to Jack right before I got on the show. I’ll be reaching out to your people. We’re going to bring some folks in, if you’ll have us, this fall. Michel Escoffier is coming over again. He wants to go to Ever. That’s where we go.

I’m not going to let you go. I know it’s a tough question because there really is so much more to dining, as you said, related to the people you’re dining with. The name of the show is The Ultimate Dish, Chef. If you had to humor me, what is the ultimate dish? Today, anyway.

Curtis Duffy: Today. Let’s see.

Kirk Bachmann: Black garlic.

Curtis Duffy: The ultimate dish. Wow. We just changed the menu to tomatoes. Really loving this tomato dish. I can’t describe it because it seems so generic and basic. Tomato and basil brioche. But it’s far from generic and basic. It is in my style, of course. It is six or eight different tomatoes all prepared different. Beautiful brioche that we make in-house that we turn into a custard.

Kirk Bachmann: Oh, a brioche custard. Oh my goodness! I don’t want to take away the secrets. Where in the line-up is it?

Curtis Duffy: Third dish in.

Kirk Bachmann: Third dish in. Look at that. I can see it.

Curtis Duffy: It’s lovely. It’s only on its second day, so we’re still tweaking a little bit, but I’m very excited for it.

Kirk Bachmann: I’m going to take that. That’s a great answer.

Curtis Duffy: Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

Kirk Bachmann: Chef, thank you for everything. Continued success. I’m going to see you on the fourteenth of August at the Boulder book store, and then on the fifteenth, you’ll be on campus here with a bunch of screaming fans. Please give everyone at the restaurant our best. Stay in touch.

And thank you – I should say, any time that people reach out to me. “Hey, I’m going to Ever. Can you put in a good word?” You humor me. I send you a text. Curtis is doing the reservations. Really? Is that what you guys think?

Curtis Duffy: That sounds right.

Kirk Bachmann: But you always, you always respond. I think the world of you. Love you. Wishing you nothing but the best, buddy.

Curtis Duffy: Thank you. Please give my best to everybody at the school. I miss seeing everybody there. It’s been a long time since I’ve been back, but I’m really excited about Boulder and getting back to the school as well, and seeing all of the familiar faces.

Kirk Bachmann: We’re ready for you. We’re ready for you.

Curtis Duffy: Thank you so much for bringing me back on for the third time. I really appreciate it. I truly appreciate our friendship as well.

Kirk Bachmann: Thank you so much, buddy. Appreciate you.

Curtis Duffy: My pleasure.

Kirk Bachmann: Thank you for listening to the Ultimate Dish podcast, brought to you by Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts. Visit escoffier.edu/podcast to find any materials mentioned during the podcast, including notes, links and other resources. And if you can, please leave us a rating on Apple or Spotify, and subscribe to support our show. This helps us reach more aspiring individuals ready to take the next step toward their dream careers. Thanks for listening.